100 Comments

  • KnolanCross

    @alekopetkov JIT is an improvement, that can't be denied, but it is still slower than compiled, machine optimized code produced by C. Also, there are other features that will make it slower such as garbage collecting, heritage (if using OO) and exception handling.
    Taking python for example (~1000 times slower than C, same performance limitations), JIT optimizers make at most the code 33 times faster (last time I checked), still AWAY slower than C.

  • J brogly.decap

    I like async socket io,.., but thats something to do with low level network IO, php is only content generation,…, so the two are totally seperate,…, the argument he makes is bullshit.

  • comsunjava

    Or you could realize that this guy knows his stuff, and take a second or two to research the issue, and find this snippet from '08 on infoq "The Mozilla Foundation has developed TraceMonkey a trace-based JIT compiler that pushes the envelope on JavaScript performance. With plans to be incorporated it in the 3.1 release of Firefox, it delivers near C performance and promises to ‘leap frog’ RIA development to a new level."

  • KnolanCross

    Link the benchmarks then, please.
    At my research, what you consider "near C performance" was 7 times slower in the best case (1700 in the worst). Sorry but that doesn't impress me at all. Imagine trading you 3 ghz processor for 430 mhz one, and that was the best case I could find.
    As I said in the other comments, there are several limitations in javascript that, while convenient, make the language slower. It's NOT best language to a server side game application and it's slower than c. Period.

  • trppmdm

    We're talking about home computers. Not about mobile computers with limited battery life. Home computers are pretty much monopolized by flash.

  • Jianju69

    Just in case you're a bit confused:

    hy·poc·ri·sy [hi-pok-ruh-see] noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.

    1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

    2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

    3. an act or instance of hypocrisy.

  • cminusminus1

    I'm surprised how many people do not get it.
    Flash movie in flash player, even in HTML5 browsers!
    Matches the definition perfectly!

  • Dan

    I had no idea they were discontinuing it, but i can see why. Flash is probably the sloppiest programming language i have learned so far

  • Jianju69

    Make no mistake: HTML5 is on the rise (youtube-dot-com/html5) while Flash is in regression (css.dzone-dot-com/news/html5-jobs-flash-down). And to reiterate, you haven't proven that people trying to study up on HTML5 are being hypocritical in any way, shape, or form. To call your statement a logical fallacy would be to kindly suggest it is a convincing argument.

  • Spencer Carpenter

    I have been working with HTML CSS and Javascript, I'm working on building a game and have the experience in building the code, testing the code in all three languages. He says very few people focus in this but maybe this can be the start of a new type of gaming industry that focuses on these languages because of how well rounded they are and how powerful they are becoming.

    We will see in the future =]

  • BluesInSeattle

    I finally gave up on using HTML5 as a cross platform game development platform. On Android it is unusable (1-2 fps). Currently native is the only way to go. The way javascript execution blocks tap events in the Android browser is nuts. Short of creating my own custom webview (not gonna do that), HTML5 is simply a novelty in terms of using the canvas for rendering high performance games.

  • YangSunWoo

    I don't know if this is gonna solve your problem but have you tried using PhoneGap? It's a way to embed html5 into the whole range of native OSs.

  • Rick Beacham

    It depends on the type of game your after. Javascript has shown that simple games like sudoko etc. are great but as soon as you get into 3d worlds etc. your bogging yourself down with javascript code that is not highly optimized like c and C++. Plus why reinvent the wheel when you can use unreal engine and unity that offer so much for the developer. Serious games need highly optimized code to run smoothly. But i think javascipt will be great for small games. Which are usually more popular

  • Rick Beacham

    The interesting idea with Javascript etc is the huge user base available. With just a browser and a facebook google account your playing large multiplayer games in an environment people are familiar with.

  • yogeniusz

    Sounds like you're still stuck in 2001, IE works just fine these days. In fact, its JS engine is faster, more compliant, and less buggy than Chrome's.

  • GathGealaich

    It's not as much a matter of the browser as the fact that YT offers multiple streams and it depends on what you use to consume them. I personally download MP4s as a matter of convenience. Standards, you know.

  • Sebastián Vansteenkiste

    "The Aves Engine was the first pluginless browser game engine. It delivered fully interactive experiences, cross-platform on desktop and mobile devices … Later on, Aves technology was acquired by Zynga." bummer D:

  • 0xFEEB

    The commercial license of Aves makes it seem it was a deliberate choice so they could be acquired. It's understandable, but it seems ironic the video declaims the lack of platforms then goes on to deliberately create a closed engine that it goes on to sell to the highest bidder!

  • Cap'n Slipp

    2:40 “No game developer in the industry would start over from scratch”???

    Perhaps no game dev who doesn't want to actually push technical boundaries and make break-out profit. Many of the wildly popular indie devs out there (indie now, but many from the formal industry) have done exactly what you're saying they wouldn't.

    A few devs & games off the top of my head are using fully custom engines: Mojang's Minecraft, Polytron's Fez, Semi Secret Software's Hundreds, Crazy Viking Studios' Volgarr.

  • Bandrew Destin

    I'm a webdeveloper with quite some experience in HTML, CSS, Javascript, jQuery, PHP and MySQL.

    Could anyone tell me where I could learn something like this?
    any good books perhaps?

  • Salvatore Shiggerino

    I'd drop the PHP and MySQL. Doesn't scale well if you're doing a heavy multi-player game. Look into Google Closure, Node.js or Clojure and a ClojureScript client.

  • fsfx

    If you are a web developer yor next step would be using web-mvc-frameworks like zend or rails. personally i use spring mvc but this could be tough for a php coder. most beginners write bad code if they try to invent their own structures in php or node.js for example. mvc frameworks will be helpful for your web dev carreer as well as for (browser) game server programming.

  • lorenzo lol

    14:44 : jQuery is a good framework for cross browser but it's very very slow !
    20:18 : it's wrong, CANVAS is really fast, 10x faster than SVG or HTML when working with graphics (test on Chrome and FF)

  • zaboing

    LWJGL is nothing but an OpenGL interface for Java. I.e., it only allows you to render using OpenGL. However, it does not provide the functions a game engine provides. Thus, LWJGL cannot be considered a game engine.

  • doug65536

    I wouldn't quite call web workers "threads". Web workers run in a completely separate context, so they're more like forking a process than starting a thread. Workers can only communicate back by raising events, and the only way to interact with a worker is by posting messages to it. They have long startup time and consume significant resources. They're definitely better than nothing though, at least concurrency is possible.

  • Cap'n Slipp

    LWJGL is a low-level library for interfacing with OpenGL/CL/AL hardware and software, not a game engine. LWJGL's own site says upfront “LWJGL is not meant to make writing games particularly easy; it is primarily an enabling technology which allows developers to get at resources that are simply otherwise unavailable or poorly implemented on the existing Java platform.”

  • omNomios

    I know this is an old video; but I really don't like how he's approaching the problem. I should see how it went, 3 years on.

  • noxabellus

    This video is really excellent and I have the utmost respect for the Paul Bakaus. That said, I feel some really core 2D and 2.5D game design concepts are totally overlooked here and in the engine he describes. For example, when discussing the pro's and con's of canvas vs DOM & CSS for graphics…The idea of pre-rendering the terrain and objects….chunking…why is this missed? After much research, I'm currently building a game with these concepts using canvas. I much prefer blitting to live image tiles. There's so much building of a framework here that is much simpler and direct to do in canvas.

  • iProDesignNL

    I'm working on a full JavaScript-based Game Engine also, like GTA. Which seems to be alot smoother. Also take over car, drive through the map without any lagg. Also I added shooting (bullet trace) and more. I'm not full convinced by this Tech Talk, but respect for all developers ! 🙂

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