AMA No. 17 w/ Matt Schutte
Articles,  Blog

AMA No. 17 w/ Matt Schutte

All right everybody hello and welcome to another Holo and Holochain live AMA I’m Matthew Schutte and I’m gonna be supported as usual by an incredible team of assistants helpers, other teammates including Paul D’oust, Aaron Faulkner Etc etc we’ve got a bunch of good folks helping on the back end to curate all of the amazing questions that you all are sending our way I’m gonna start with some intros We’re gonna do some thank yous, some announcements, some FAQ’s and then we’re gonna get into the AMA. So let’s get started First off, some Thank Yous. I’d really like to thank our incredible Telegram and Mattermost admins. We’ve got a wonderful volunteer community that has been Really doing the heavy lifting on making our Online community special and it’s no short no shortage of work there. So I want to thank TVG, DHTnetwork, Luck Light Lannister, Marcel, theyBrooks Baud-Aha Frederick, JoeCryptoKnight and a bunch of others. I’d also like to thank a bunch of people who helped out at our Amsterdam hackathon last weekend, especially Alexis Victor, Alexar and Adam. I was there it was an incredible event and it would not have happened without the support and hard work of those volunteers Some announcements. So we’ve got some pretty interesting announcements. The first one is a Holoports announcement that we Just sent out in our latest news newsletter. So lots of Holoport news coming out. You can subscribe to that newsletter by clicking subscribe on the home page at the bottom Some of the takeaways include 1) Holoports are under production. Yay We’ll be receiving the first shipment of official prototypes in the next few days and begin testing immediately As that process goes forward, we’ll continue keeping you in the loop with all the latest Unfortunately, we had an issue finding a large enough supply of the processors that we had initially expect out for the Holoports But rather than delay delivery, we opted to give everyone a speed upgrade. Yay That does mean that they’re going to use a touch more electricity than we had originally specified But we don’t think it’s going to be significant. We’ll have more details on that in the newsletter What kinds of apps will go on Holoports? Let’s see. We’ve got in couple other things here. In combination with the holochain Rust update our summer interns And holochain apps, our team, we refer to holchain apps as ‘happs’ We’ve been getting some fantastic work done between those interns and our happs team Some of the ones that should be ready in alpha or beta by launch include HoloVault which is a our working title for a personal identity and personas management application HoloChat a base chat application This is kind of like a mother app of ours akin to Slack or Mattermost portions of which will be used by many other happs Because holochain apps are interoperable because of the way, they’re built HoloChat will be something that many other applications will be able to make use of Fractal Wiki which is exactly as it sounds it’s a wiki with wiki’s inside of wiki’s Which was actually started at one of our earlier hackathons in London and has been built upon at more recent hackathons including one in Vancouver Another one is Errand which is a Kanban project management tool that’s similar to Waffle for those of you who use Github/Waffle for your Github issues or Trello For those of you who are using Trello’s Kanban format for managing work. I do. And I’m looking forward to doing something similar to that in a holochain based distributed forum We’ve also got a whole bunch of games that people have been building including chess battleship and Minesweeper but actually a social minesweeper called Minersweeper for those of you who are geeky You can go ahead and jump on the Github repo and download the current version, but we’ll be working on improved versions as well soon Coming soon. We’re going to have holochain office hours. So these AMAs are great but unfortunately They don’t always get into the really deep technical stuff What we are going to have is a place for developers to ask technical, in the weeds type questions of our engineering team We’re going to be announcing the when and where on that on social media soon But our engineers are looking forward to that Also coming very soon. Holochain beta, our Rust Refractor So we had built our original version of holochain in Go We’ve done a number of alpha releases on that platform. We are rebuilding holochain in Rust we’re getting close to a first release of that and Rust should enable us to support web assembly, be able to run hold a chain of apps native on mobile phones, etc, etc So there’s a whole bunch of good stuff that comes with that refactor. Some of events that are coming up: we’ve got hackathons, one is happening on October 14th in New York City at Brooklyn Generator. On October 30th through November 5th, we’ve got Holochain Week in Pittsburgh So join us at Carnegie Mellon University for a number of speakers on collective intelligence, currency design, deep wealth and of course Holochain. There will also be a weekend workshop on how to design and build Holochain apps So for those of you who aren’t living there already Visit Pittsburgh. There’s gonna be a whole bunch of Holochain stuff happening And then also the dates aren’t quite picked yet, but it looks like late November. We’re going to do a hackathon in Denver. We’ll be announcing that on social media as well Subtitles, I’m already seeing some comments and questions about subtitles in the chat A lot of our international viewers asked for subtitles last time so they can follow along More easily. We hear you and we looked into it but it appears that it’ll impact the quality of the live stream so Unfortunately because it would reduce the video quality and because the subtitles don’t show up and call quite a bit later We’re gonna wait. What we are going to do is to create high quality Subtitles afterwards and we’ll share the link to the recording on our social media channels Meetups first off. What is a Meetup? We at Holo use the generic term meetup to refer to a gathering of people to A) discuss holo chain, or B) work on Holochain apps Compared with other more involved Holochain events, such as a hackathon or a workshop, meetups are short in length Typically just a couple of hours We provide structure for three main types of Meetup. One is an introduction to Holochain session Two is a going deeper session where we focus on key concepts and app design and the third one and this is my favorite- Build Night. So that’s where people come together and they share their projects and they actually get to to work building Why should you hold a meet-up? well A meetup is a great way to introduce new people to the Holochain project, to discuss new ideas for Applications built on the Holochain protocol and to gather people to actually build apps without the time and resource commitment of a larger event like a hackathon. We recommend that organizers hold several meetups before organizing a hackathon as a strong meetup presence lays the foundation for a fruitful hackathon later on. Meetups are also great for forming local networks, developing local projects and maintaining community. We’ve got some upcoming meetups including one on October 18th in Mexico City There’s gonna be a mid-october meetup in Pittsburgh in anticipation of Holochain week And then we’re also going to be seeing a meet-up in Cyprus for those of you in the middle of the Mediterranean late November. You can always review our upcoming events on the or websites. If you want to do a meet-up, whether it’s in Seoul Istanbul or anywhere else Please email our events team at [email protected] Again that’s [email protected] We would love to support you in organizing meetups wherever you may be. A couple of the things that we do look for We would love meetups where there’s a university who’s excited or interested in supporting getting new Holochain developers online or new people thinking about new business models that can be supported through Holochain applications. Also Anywhere where there’s developer shops. If there’s a group of developers who are looking to do lots of development on Holochain for hire down the line and they really want more developers in their local talent pool for them to recruit from, those are wonderful people for us to partner with and hosting meetups. Some important links we’re gonna share these in the chat as well, but Our Telegram is at On Reddit you can add comments at r/holochain For documentation, for those of you looking to actually build hApps, go to For Mattermost, our online chat community, you can find us at and the developer Q&A channel is called HC App Dev. So if you’re a developer, and you’ve got questions that you haven’t been able to find the answers to dive into the app dev channel on our Mattermost and ask our engineers. We’d be happy to to get your answers there Alright, we’re about to dive into questions. I’m gonna drop these links into the chat and away we go Okay, oh no, it said it was too long. I’ll let somebody else do it, alright And I had to break it into parts. Alright questions. Smarter kata says Who specifically -apps, companies, sites- Do you foresee being the initial purchasers of Holo hosting? So I don’t know who the actual apps are yet, because it’s early days but it’s going to be the developers. The developers of applications that want to reach out to the outside world and have anybody be able to interact with their services. The examples that I’ve used in the past are things like a peer-to-peer version of a ride-sharing company so a Holochain based competitor to Uber. There is one right now that’s building some prototypes on Holochain and Other things would be a peer-to-peer home-sharing platforms, peer-to-peer social media So there’s a bunch of things like that, but those would be the likely candidates. As of yet, we’ve got a handful of other communities that are looking to build, one called Producer’s Token who’s doing a supply chain for food production and those kinds of organizations may end up making use of Holo hosting as well because they end up having a much larger ecosystem that is being served by Holochain. I don’t even know this name? I am the McLovin heir, right? Are you worried that everyone jumps ship from their crypto investments and gets into Holochain, making it volatile and not stable and more than $1 eventually? Okay, so there’s a couple of questions there One is Will lots of people flooding into Holochain raise the price of Holo Fuel? I’m not worried about that. I do think that’s going to happen actually because I think that as Holochain starts to demonstrate some use unlike most of the other things in the crypto world Lots of capital will begin shifting around to kind of reshuffle the deck So I don’t I have don’t make any predictions about where the price of Holo will go but if it rises significantly, is that something that worries me? No, because I think that the price of hosting will adjust based on whatever the real world costs are So even if Holo becomes worth significantly more people will just charge fewer Holo Fuel credits for the same amount of hosting, and think that’s at least where a competitive market would lead In terms of volatility, we’ll see. I don’t know the answer to that. My belief is that the hosting will be able to counterbalance people changing their price of hosting will really be what sets the the price of Holo Fuel but there could be some early days where there’s so much speculation going on that it’s overwhelming the amount of capacity that others are were able to add to the network. I’m not sure. I don’t really want to get into too much more speculation there. That said, I do want to point out there is a difference between between Holo and Holo Fuel , sorry the Holo Token (HOT) and Holo Fuel The HOT/HoloToken is running on Ethereum. It’s an ER C 20 token and as many of you have seen it’s it goes up and down like other crypto currencies do. It’s a fixed supply. It doesn’t have some of our mechanisms for reducing volatility that Holo Fuel has. Once we shift over to making use of Holo Fuel primarily, I think Holo Fuel will not be suffering from those same kinds of volatility. We have a different one. I am the McLovin I guess it’s the same person different question: Why is a huge supply of Holo a bad thing? People keep saying Holo can’t get far because there’s too much supply. I don’t see supply as a bad thing Touching on the previous question, if Holo goes to something like a dollar that If we have decimals, then we’re able to support Dollar prices because you can have a fraction of a Holo Fuel unit be your unit that you’re paying for hosting If that wasn’t the case, there could be a problem, but having too little supply would be a real problem if there wasn’t much Holo Fuel available, then we could see significant price Which would move out of people’s ability to host. That said, one thing to remember is that the supply is not fixed. With Holo Fuel there is a dynamic supply so if there’s lots of demand, our belief is that the community will start to provide additional hosting and that will bring down the… that will raise the supply of Holo Fuel, which should stabilize the price. Mussolini asks, are you helping to fund these startups with the accelerator? There are certain projects that we are helping to support financially But not all of them. There are a number of projects out there that are independently financed that are building on Holochain but there are some that we are providing financial support to. Hilton asks: Will Holo Fuel be pegged to any currencies? No Holo Fuel is not pegged to any other currencies. It is backed by computing power basically the hosting that members of the Holo community are providing. Now, initially what we did was we sold our own computing storage and processing services that we promised to deliver at least this much processing power/hosting capacity for each unit of Holo Fuel. However, our expectation is that our community will be able to under bid us significantly, and thus provide hosting at a far cheaper rate, people are going to turn to them, etc, etc What that means is that Holo Fuel is backed by hosting, not backed by being pegged to some other currency. Ican’t even pronounce this name. So I’m gonna not say it. They said: I run a website fully on Holo I think that was a question- can I run our website fully on Holo? Yes, people will be able to run run websites on Holo and that’s kind of the poin. Now recognize that this is a website that’s being served on the back end by a Holochain community, so there’s a number of community members that are participating in that distributed application and then certain of those members are also serving out. Well bunch of people have asked- When will Holoports be shipped? I will say Next year sometime. We’re aiming to have some stuff by the end of the year It could be at the end of the year, fingers crossed, but I was going to hedge my bets and say early 2019, end of 2018, early 2019. Many people. Okay from last time Tim Anderson asked: What else is Holo aside from a hosting service competing with AWS, Google, etc, that will make a significant impact on the world? Is there an official video which explains that? Aside from a hosting service Holo is a hosting service and then there’s a novel cryptocurrency architecture that we’re making use of. That cryptocurrency architecture, this was kind of touched on in one of the previous questions, other people may start wanting to use our cryptocurrency for other forms of micro payment. That’s not what we are designing it for. We’re we’re designing it for hosting. But, if it does prove successful as the world’s first viable micro cryptocurrency or micro currency, really, micro payment system That might start getting used for lots of other things. The bigger thing that’s gonna make an impact, however is Holochain. Really, Holo is about building a bridge from Holochain to the rest of the world so that Holochain adoption can happen far faster, right? We really didn’t want people building Holochain apps and then finding themselves kind of isolated on their own little island This was really about improving the usability of Holochain by making it so that you don’t get punished for doing something new And it was also about funding Holochain. So in Holo, when people do hosting or and get paid for it, or they pay somebody for something else like a bicycle or bandwidth or whatever We take a 1% or less transaction fee. That transaction fee goes to supporting not only Holo, but 50% of those revenues go to supporting the development and maturation of Holochain. So the architecture that underlies Holo, and that all of those Holo hosts will be making use of, that architecture is getting fueled through the transaction fees of the activity in the network. All right. Other questions, we have Brian saying: What is the biggest hurdle that you are working through with development and implementation right now? I’ll say it actually is The NAT traversal and punching through firewalls. This has been a problem that has plagued a number of peer-to-peer projects for years. We’re doing a very concerted effort to improve performance on punching through routers and firewalls, etc To be honest, a consortium approach. I talked to somebody at one of the browser companies Somebody who works on Chrome and they were like, yeah We we would like to get the hardware manufacturers like Cisco etcetera to do a better job of supporting peer-to-peer Peer-to-peer applications because right now there’s a lot of different layers where People trying to have their node ping another node. They just can’t And so there are, there are solutions out there Libp2p has some functionality. We’ve got a partnership with Promether trying to work on this problem and there’s others as well. But that’s the biggest issue that we have. So if you have really experienced networking engineers out there We would love to work with them. If you’ve got folks that are really good at solving these kinds of problems, we want to hire you. Come hit us up you can reach out on the page. We are very interested in working with those kinds of people. Even if you aren’t really willing to be hired because some of the folks in that world are doing their own projects, we may want to support your work if it aligns with what we’re trying to solve in this improvement of peer-to-peer NAT traversal firewall punching etc. Other questions: I’m not seeing new questions added here. Oh, here we go. Since Holochain is user centric, unless unlike blockchain which is data centric, wouldn’t blockchain…wouldn’t Holochain be exposed easily to hacks and malicious software by malicious agents/users? So I’m gonna frame this as a question really about How do we maintain data integrity even though we’re not doing global consensus? The basic answer is: We’re using a different approach than blockchain is. So blockchain was really focused on a digital anonymous cash, it comes out of Bitcoin originally, so it was really about digital anonymous cash with focus being anonymity. We’re not focusing so much on anonymity. We’re focusing just on can we do peer-to-peer coordination without having to rely on any third party. Not a web server, not miners, nothing, just the members of the community themselves. Blockchain could have done something like that if …if the protocol wasn’t so heavy that it made it so that ordinary users can’t actually participate as full nodes. Blockchain forces full nodes to hold on to a copy of everything that anyone has ever done That’s a burden that my phone is really just not going to be up to serving and so They ended up creating this mining reward thing for randomizing who gets to make a commit to the blockchain. We have a different approach. So, first off each Holochain app is its own separate social space. There’s not like one big Holochain. Each app is its own space that has the rules that the users of that app find useful for their context. So if you’re running a Holochain app that’s a Twitter like thing where you’re sending short messages to one another, you’ve got a different set of concerns than if you’re running a Holochain app that allows you to transfer millions of dollars from one party to another. The cost that you’re willing to bear is different, the price of a speed that you’re willing to or the slowness that you’re willing to endure is different, right? Thus the risk of a something going wrong though. The threat is different. If you’re sending a message, and it doesn’t get through… bummer. If you’re sending millions of dollars, and it doesn’t get to the right party… big bummer, right? So those are different contexts. What happens in a Holochain app, is that the users set up some specific set of rules, and they have mechanisms for maintaining the integrity of the data that they’re sharing in common. We described the primary mechanism that we’re making use of as an immune system response. If anyone tries to do something that doesn’t …comply… …conform to the rules of that application, the first other actor that witnesses that attempted bad behavior will go ‘Hey, this is no good, not okay’, they will reject it and they may report to others. ‘Hey, this person’s trying to pass bad information.’ If a number of agents are colluding to try to propagate bad info, the first non-colluder that notices something going on says ‘hey, there’s a problem here’ and they start alerting others that there’s a problem. This is the same pattern that people use when they’re playing a card game. We have our own rules Each of us is holding on to our own copy. It lives inside of us We remember that you’re only supposed to pick up a card after somebody else has picked up a card We see that somebody’s trying to pick up a card when it’s not their turn and we go ‘Hey, it’s not your turn.’ And when we do that, we’re doing two things: We are signalling to others, right, everybody else at the table now notices Hey, this guy’s trying to pick up a card when it’s not his turn, and two- we’re moving to take action. We’re personally stepping up to try to prevent them from doing that. Now, if they insist on picking up a card, other people are gonna start jumping in and what may end up happening is people might actually decide not to accept their play for the rest of that game. They may actually decide not to play with them anymore at all. It’s a distributed enforcement mechanism and it actually is the one that nature uses as well. Our bodies rely on this. The reason we call it an immune system response is it’s how our immune system works. A white blood cell sees an infection It does two things- it signals to others and moves to take action. Other white blood cells receiving that signal start producing more blood cells. They start moving towards the problem. When the new ones show, up they go Oh, wow, there’s an infection here They signal to others move to take action. And this repeats over and over until the problem is overwhelmed. So The basic gist is, will people try to attack? I’m sure they will. And if they’re successful, the community will go ‘Ooh, these rules aren’t working so well, we need to pay attention to new things’ and they’ll change the rules. They could change the rules for that specific app they may start running some other app and pay attention to information that’s available through that context thus modifying the information that they have available to themselves so they can make a better informed decision. I dive into a whole bunch more of this stuff and the game theory underlying it in a talk that I did recently at node in San Francisco. I’ve gone into it a little bit in other talks as well. I think that node talk is available on Facebook If I can find the link, I’ll share that in the chat as well. All right other questions Will there be substantial shifts in human behavior if this whole innovation reaches mass adoption? Hmm …I hope so. I hope that the kind of shifts that we see will be of leading us back to patterns that we used to embody much more frequently and away from the kinds of patterns that we seem to be embodying now. Right now we’re used to operating inside of an industrial society. We’re used to operating inside of large hierarchies and At some level it has commodified human interaction You see people treating others as if they are just a means to an end rather than a person with all of that richness and relationship that accompanies it and I think that has to do with the way in which power has concentrated but so has value the way in which we communicate about whether something is valuable is really reduced in its dimensionality. It’s been compressed down to just dollars and dollars don’t allow us to sense all that much They they let us know that the price of something this one thing is more expensive than this other thing But it doesn’t tell us why because it doesn’t tell us why our Market-based system leads to a race to the bottom right The price of copper goes up for whatever reason the price of things that use copper go up, the price of things that use those things that use copper go up, and at the end of the day we’re sitting here going Well, this one’s cheap And this one’s expensive and I don’t know why but I guess I’ll go with the cheaper one And it makes it so that we have a world that has each of us regardless of what we desire to support accidentally supporting the worst worker health and safety standards, the worst pollution controls, the worst wages for the other people in our community, in our global community at least, and it pits us all against one another Right. This is putting pressure on everybody. It’s literally creating a race to the bottom. It… I believe that with an increase in our capacity to communicate with integrity, we will start to be able to go back to a world where our relationships are not just reduced to numbers in a bank account, where we are able to interact in rich or more meaningful ways and that we’re not punished for doing that. I think that our existing communications system and money is really just a form of information technology It’s just a simple one. This is not a very good one Our existing communications technology is really doing us a disservice and I do believe that Holochain will be a part it’s not the only thing, but I think it’ll be a part of a set of technologies and changing cultural practices that lead to ideally a much more human society. So I’ll leave it there Rafty says: when is it possible to buy Holoports again? Or is it still possible? Is the current building of the Holoport just the first version or will this one be longer produced? We are working on getting a Holoport shop up and running. It’s not quite there yet That’ll be an online shop where you will be able to buy Holoports I don’t know about versions We’re sticking with just getting this one out right now. If it’s successful, we may produce others in the future I won’t make any announcements about that just yet One thing to know, however, is that you don’t have to buy a Holoport from us? You can take any computer and host on it We’ve created the Holoports to make it as easy as possible for people to just plug it in and begin hosting Tushar says: is there any one approach to build a social app like Facebook or YouTube? I don’t exactly know what that question means, but I’ll frame it this way. I think there’s a variety of approaches to building social applications. Each of them has their own architecture. If you were to do something like Twitter, its small posts shared with people who are following you. If you were to do something like Facebook You could do a thing like Facebook where it’s small posts, but only shared to your friends So only people that you have opted in to publishing to you could do a more Richer version of Facebook, a more modern version where it’s videos and all kinds of other stuff. You can do YouTube, where it’s something that you’re publishing publicly or alternatively Privately to anyone who has a link or alternatively just for your own use So there’s a whole bunch of different approaches to how to do that What else do we have here? We have: are their happs already created and if so, can you share some? We went through a whole list of apps that have been created earlier in the chat during the announcements section. Those included a chat application, an identity application some games, etc. But we’ve had a bunch of people build apps in our hackathons as well and there’s people building apps outside of Holochain and the Holochain hackathons too One that happened in the Amsterdam hackathon was a Viral Challenge app, so that’s kind of people challenge one another to do interesting or funny things in public They do that challenge and then they declare whether they’ve done it. I’m sure in a future version they might need video proof or photo proof or something. And then if they if they decided to do the app or the challenge and they click done, then it propagates. It gets broadcast to more people. If they decided nah, I’m not really into that one and they opted not to take on that challenge it doesn’t propagate. So it was an interesting kind of viral social game application. Neha says: how will you be overcoming the regulatory uncertainty? Also what plans for India? I would like to support outreach. Thanks, Neha In terms of regulatory uncertainty we’re doing our very best to play within the regulatory frameworks that are available. So right now we are operating out of Gibraltar. We’ve got also entities in Liechtenstein we are working to make sure that we comply with all of their criteria. The main criteria that comes up has to do with our currency. And so we’re jumping through all the hoops that we can to make sure that we don’t step on any toes there In terms of…and that’s been going well so far In terms of India we are really planning to support India in a big way in 2019. One of the initial people who stepped up to support Holochain even before the ICO, gave us a loan to help get this all off the ground his mission in life is really to help revolutionize a lot of how education and Community can happen in India and so we’re excited about going and supporting that vision and We’re gonna be doing a number of hackathons in India and I believe supporting in other ways as well Alex: Holochain can help to free the Internet of state blocks domain names, okay Do we need new DNS system to have the Internet be free? No, I don’t think so. So one thing to note is every Holochain app has its own DNS. It has its own namespace so we’re doing DNS, and for those of you who aren’t familiar, this is the domain name server. So when you type in or That actually goes to some domain name servers which then redirect it to a number and that number Goes to a specific machine. So the way that the internet is built Or the way that the world wide web I should be clear with the world wide web is built There’s actually this centralized architecture at the middle with these domain name servers and With Holochain, that’s not the case. With Holochain you’re looking up content not by asking for a specific machine But you’re asking for the content itself. It’s a content-based addressing scheme rather than a location based addressing scheme. That location based addressing scheme is actually one of the reasons why the world wide web has become so centralized and if this has to do with the fact that it’s a pain in the butt to run a web server, so people started turning to hosting, they started turning to hosting companies and then eventually to platforms So not just a hosting company, but hey you set up the website So Facebook and Twitter and all that stuff started to come onto the scene about a decade ago But much of that has its anchor in location-based content addressing We’re using a different approach. We’re using content based addressing sort of like BitTorrent or ipfs uses and that means that the the name is based on the content itself. So long story short. No, we don’t need a new DNS Each Holochain app is its own namespace and if you want to call into that namespace you call the DNA of that app, and then the address for the piece of content What else?: What are the plans for sharing and streaming larger file types- video, audio, etc? Will IPFS be built into Holochain or something better? Is there a timeline for this? So, first things first, each Holohain app is its own separate space Holochain is a really thin layer for doing the cryptographic data integrity basically, for making it so that these people can play a game together and have the rules be enforced in accordance with their expectations. Streaming of larger file types is fairly straightforward from peer-to-peer so I can send you through node to node communication a file But streaming from a stored content is something different We expect that people who are wanting to build that kind of thing will either Build it on Holochain, or will make use of another framework They may make use of ipfs they may make use of Dropbox. Holochain is not going to have IPFS built into it because that would suddenly pull that in for every application and not every application needs that but we play well with IPFS We would also be able to make calls to Dropbox or some other Store of content for being able to serve things out That said, we are planning to build file server apps, file storage and serving apps down the line. But, to be totally honest, that’s not where we’re gonna focus initially Mainly because we want people to recognize that Holochain is more than just peer-to-peer file storage It’s about people being able to run peer-to-peer applications right, people being able to play a game together in accordance with some specific set of rules that can enable things like the peer-to-peer ride-sharing stuff that Arcade City is working on or peer-to-peer home sharing or accommodations etc It could also enable the file storage but I think that’s something that we’re not gonna be building right off the bat simply because there are some other things on…that are serving that niche at present and it could be the case that some members of our community are going to get excited and they’re gonna build that, so, yay What else? David Butler says: has Holochain technology began to turn heads of other multinational companies? I will say that we are talking with a number of multinational companies I won’t name names until we need to. Until we’ve got some memorandum, understanding or they’re actually building and not just building but willing to announce But, yes, I will say yep, we’re talking to folks and they find it exciting I think like many of the people in the community that aren’t just Looking at us as an opportunity for something to speculate on they get excited about the ways in which Holochain can lead to improved adaptive capacity One specific place that a number of larger firms have been excited about is the use of Holochain in supply chains Normally when you’ve got a supply chain you have companies that are in relationship with one another, like I may be buying something from this guy but I don’t have relationships with all of his upstream vendors and he doesn’t really know all my customers and and yet, for that community to be able to coordinate with one another they often have to try to orchestrate quite a bit across the entire supply chain. We think that with Holochain, you’re gonna be able to have me and my vendor come into agreement about how to communicate about let’s say new inventory hitting my warehouse, being released from their custody and into mine But we don’t necessarily have to have anybody else in alignment about that However, when he says yep, I’ve released it and here’s some other information from upstream I’m able to take that and pass it along further downstream in whatever app whatever application I’m running with my Regulators with my customers etc so We think that it’s going to enable and a significant increase in the ease of changing these systems that are being used across organizations. It also helps for the inside of organizations, right, your accounting department talking to your Shipping department, etc We think that it’ll make it much easier for people to be able to bridge between those and try new things. One of the things about a Holochain app is Any one party can decide to change how they’re viewing something, right? They don’t need anyone else to agree to them seeing this in a different way, including filtering out information that they don’t care about. Right, or pulling in additional information from some other source that they do care about, so they’re pulling stuff from here they’re pulling stuff from here, they’re pulling stuff from here and they’re able to see it in a new way. So any one party can sort of experiment by themselves in that way Any two parties can try some new grammar, right or to be honest any one party can try a new grammar and if somebody else wants to start making use of that they can What do I mean by new grammar? Well, they can be speaking about some specific thing Like, a grammar would be the form of the information, so it could be ‘hey, we’re gonna track GPS location’ or ‘we’re gonna track what the date was that this fish was caught’ or ‘we’re gonna track whether this organization has certified it as organic or as sustainably harvested’, something along those lines. So because it reduces the difficulty of trying new things and and when you reduce the difficulty of trying new things, it enables you to try new things and that enables you to surface solutions that actually work, right? Reduce the cost of experimentation you can experiment a lot more. You can find the things that actually fit the problem That improves the adaptive capacity of organizations that are making use of these apps Alright, can you tell us some of your story, says Taylor. You went to UC Berkeley? Yes. How did I find Holo? Oh, okay I’ll keep this short because there’s lots of other questions and you can find out about this stuff elsewhere. So, I was born an army brat, I My mom and dad were both enlisted army. My mom got out when I was born Because my dad stayed in the army until I was about 15, we moved around every couple of years. So I grew up in Europe, Asia, all over the United States and having moved around a whole bunch by the time I was 18, I was pretty convinced that the world was broken. But I was also convinced that it wasn’t just bad guys somewhere doing bad things, that the problems were structural They were systemic in nature, and I was excited to figure out how to try to make that stuff work better So I dove into political theory. I also studied communications Those were my two majors in undergrad. I was looking to see if there were ways that we could regulate ourselves and small scale/big scale but really at a global scale was what I was interested in more effectively and I searched and searched and searched for about a decade and I couldn’t find much I did end up going to UC Berkeley for law school, and in the middle of law school, I stumbled onto a series of epiphanies I’ve mapped these out in one of my early blog posts on my blog. That’s and This series of epiphanies kind of led me through how communities historically regulated themselves at small-scale, how the internet was enabling us to do some of that but in really simple ways at big scale. But how a redesign of the architecture of the Internet could actually enable us to do really robust sort of peer-to-peer steering or discretion-based steering at large scale at even global scale and I Immediately it was apparent to me that that was my life’s work this was in February of 2007 and I’ve been working on it ever since. I have done other things in the meantime to pay the bills. I ran an investment firm for a few years. I helped to run a… Makerspace, kind of a co-working space with a million dollars worth of tools and equipment including woodshop, metal shop, and 3D printers and laser cutters and the whole nine yards. And I ran an innovation consulting firm for a number of years where we both did high-end consulting with companies on how to be more innovative and how to create more innovative culture But we also did things like team building events So helping people get out of the office and and play for an afternoon in order to build healthier more productive relationships so that they could take risks, because the main risk In terms of experimentation in the group is usually not a financial one It’s usually a social one and if you can make it so that people are more comfortable with one another, they can take those risks more easily. It wasn’t until about five years ago that I met Arthur Brock, the co-founder of the Metacurrency Project and at that time me and my business partner, a gentleman and Jared Holtz, who also works on Holochain We went hey, it sounds like what he’s building is what we’re wanting to build. Maybe we should just join forces with them, and after a little bit more get to know you time and diving into their architecture for Ceptr, the project that Holochain is a small part of, I went, ‘Yep, this is where I want to be’ and I’ve basically done everything I could including Sleeping in my car for a year and a half In order to work on this and not have to do other work So yeah, this is the life’s work stuff and I’m very grateful that at this moment in time I’m not having to sleep in my car, and I’m not also having to run another company in order to subsidize getting to work on this. All right, what else? Given that you can run a Holochain app without Holo hosting Holo, the hosting software, is required to host, ie… Serve a Holochain and get paid in Holo Fuel, correct? Yes, okay, so Two things here, you don’t need Holo to run a Holochain app, right? You can run a Holo, as I said, you can run an app without doing Holo hosting. But if you want to host a website to other people You do need to be running that, the Holochain app that you’re hosting, and you have to be running the Holo Holochain app as well. The Holo Holochain app and there may actually be a couple of different apps or a few different apps here, but the Holo app deals with the allocation of those hosting Jobs, essentially. Hey somebody’s asking for a website, serve them a website. Right, but also the cryptocurrency payments, so there’s gonna be some apps that you have to run for the hosting side But you also do need to be running the Holochain application that you are bridging to the outside world. So if I was doing hosting work for an our B&B an Airbnb kind of peer-to-peer version, then you will want to have that app running, because when a query comes in, you’re not going to have all that content on your machine you’re gonna reach out to the other members of the Holochain app to pull down the photos, the descriptions, the prices for places to stay in Paris this weekend and you’re gonna package that up as an HTML file and serve it up So that’s basically the gist. When you do that work, you’re getting paid in Holo Fuel for the hosting. So yes, Holo is about being paid for hosting Holochain apps to the outside world. That makes it so that anybody who has a web browser can touch… Sorry so that anybody who has a web browser can interact with that content. I am McLovin said Will Holochain make most blockchain projects obsolete? My belief is yes, I think that Most blockchains are sort of crippled by their cost, their scale the speed that they can support. That doesn’t mean that blockchain won’t work for anything, but I think for most use cases People will find that they can solve the problems that they’re wanting to solve far easier at far less cost with Holochain. It’s also just a lot easier to build on, right, because you can try things and change them if they don’t work It’s a much less scary thing to build on. I’ve talked to Ethereum developers who were sort of shaking in their boots getting ready to hit the you know, go live button because if there’s a bug in your code, there’s no pulling it back and And there’s no adapting it, really, so Holochain has some significant advantages there and I This is Matthew Schutte’s personal opinion Don’t sue me later but yeah, I I think that Holochain is well, I’ll frame it this way: Holochain is modeled after patterns in nature And we’re doing our best The best that we can to mimic the patterns in nature that after a billion years of trial and error have out-competed everything else So I have a hard time imagining that architectures that require everyone to hold on to a copy of everything are going to be the default for distributing computing more generally Singh says: what if the vendor and customer don’t want to reveal their contract data to others? I understand permission can be embedded in the DNA But how secured and encrypted their data can be when moved to DHT? So, there’s a few different ways to to solve that problem One is just through encryption, but another one that’s probably a bit more interesting is that you can fork the app into a private space That’s the pattern that we’re making use of for HoloChat and HoloVault the What my mean by that is, you can actually create another Holochain app that’s just for the interaction between those parties So, when you make use of that, you… When you make use of that HoloChat or that separate Holochain app, it… The information in there is only visible to the participants in that app And so whether it’s a bender and a contractor or three parties or ten parties or twenty parties They’re able to have some private communication in there And of course things that are signed in there could be shared elsewhere, right? But there are some other mechanisms for dealing with that It depends on what you’re wanting to solve there If you’re wanting to have nobody ever be able to know that it was really you that did this action That’s one thing It sounds like they’re really looking for more of a secure environment in which to have agreements but not necessarily have to have those agreements Be shared by everyone else or visible to everyone else. Let’s see Okay, we’ve got only a few minutes left So I’m gonna go ahead and repeat some of the announcements that we made. First off, a big Thank you to our amazing Telegram and Mattermost admins TVG, DHTnetwork, Luck Light, Lannister, Marcel, TheyBrooks. Baud-Ah, Frederick JoeCryptoKnight and others. I want to say thank you to the folks from the Amsterdam hackathon especially Alexis, Victor, Alexar and Adam We’ve got some announcements about Holoports again So for those of you who are here at the beginning Holoports are under production. We’ll be receiving the first shipment of official prototypes in the next few days We’ll begin testing immediately. And as that process goes forward, we’ll continue keeping you in the loop with all the latest Unfortunately, we had an issue finding a large enough supply of the processors initially chosen for the Holoports, but rather than delay a delivery We’ve opted to give the Holoports a speed upgrade. We’ve got a number of apps that are being built by our team and others some of the hApps that should be ready in alpha or beta by launch include HoloVault, HoloChat, Fractal Wiki, Errand, which is a kind of a Trello or Waffle-like project management app And games such as minesweeper, battleship, or chess. We’re going to be doing Holochain office hours For people… a place for developers to ask technical in the weeds type questions look for announcements on our social media for place and time. Coming very soon is Holochain beta, the Rust Refactor and We’ve got some events coming up as well. Hackathons in New York City on October 14th, in Pittsburgh we got Holochain week happening October 30th through November 5th and In Denver, we’ll be doing a hackathon in late November All right everyone. Thank you very much for all of the questions We’ll be doing another AMA in the near future But until, then please bring your questions to our Mattermost channel at or Telegram at Thank you. And somebody asked is that kids in the background? It is, we’re outside of a Place in Ericeira… I’m in a place called Ericeira, Portugal today and there are kids outside playing and yelling, so Everybody, have a good one. Talk to you soon. Take care. Bye


  • Teespring Tutorial

    Holochain is starting to give me the #xvg #verge vibes from December 2017. The developers tried to also do PR, deadlines were promised and not met. There's even a Holo Whale just like the


    . Get mad all you want, but let's address this issue while $hot is still new.

  • Praveen Balla

    Summary of updates and notes from today's Holo AMA:

    – Holoports are finally in production YAY ❤️
    – First shipment of official prototypes in a couple of days – YAY! ?
    – Had supply issues with specified processor – so, rather delay delivery, they upgraded everyone's processor YAYAY! ?
    – Amsterdam Hackathon – super success and full
    – Summer interns + dev team worked on releasing many apps in alpha or beta
    – HApps include HOLO VAULT – new ID Management happ, HoloChat – base chat application like Slack (Mother Chat App – portions which can be used by many other apps), HOLO FRACTAL WIKI – wikipedia like happ and to build to wiki inside wiki – built at a London Hackathon; HOLO ERRAND – Project Management tool like Trello or Waffle (Github)

    Holo Games – Chess, Minersweeper, Battleship ?

    – New "Holochain Office Hours" for developers to communicate with holo engineers directly to help develop
    – Holochain Beta – to be released soon in RUST (supposes on Web Assembly, natively run Happs on Mobile)

    – Next Hackathons ?

    – HOLO Hackathon New York
    – Holo Week – at Carnegie Mellon University
    – Next Hackathon – HOLO Hackathon Denver

    – New Holo Meet Ups! ?
    – Sessions: (1) Intro to holochain; (2) How to build a holoapps; (3) Build Apps
    – Aim is to build local communities of devs. Encourage everyone to have Holo Meetups.
    – October 18. Mexico City Meet up
    – Other meetups – Pitssburg and Cyprus ??

  • Taylor

    One way to think of investing in Holo: Do you believe that TRULY peer-to-peer APPLICATIONS (actual applications–as in, similar to the "apps" we have today) have a future? If YES, then investing in Holo is pretty much a no-brainer (especially after listening to Matthew's reply at 12:48. Beautiful. Just beautiful!). Solid team, HONEST people; super-smart; motivated; strong history. Holo's an all-around win, in my opinion.

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